As the longest-running reality competition show on television, MTV’s The Challenge faces some pretty tough decisions every time it assembles a cast for a new season. Fans from the earliest day of the show in the late Nineties and early 2000s yearn to see OGs like Mark Long, Darrell Taylor, Aneesa Ferreira, and Tina Barton compete, even though they are now in their 40s and 50s. Younger fans are more familiar with fresh faces like Horacio Gutiérrez Jr., Michele Fitzgerald, and Nurys Mateo. And it simply wouldn’t be a season of The Challenge without legends like CT Tamburello, Cara Maria Sorbello, Jordan Wiseley, Laurel Stucky, and, of course, Johnny “Bananas” Devenanzio.
For the 40th season of The Challenge, premiering tonight on MTV, the show took a page out of the Taylor Swift playbook by dividing the history of their show into four distinct eras. It’s the biggest cast in the history of the show, and they’re pitted against each other for the chance to win one million dollars.
“I’m getting a little emotional,” Tamburello, who won the second season of the U.S. incarnation of Traitorsalongside fellow Challenge vet Trishelle Cannatella shortly before shipping out, says in the first episode. “I think I’m around 19 or 20 Challenges at this point. To me, coming on season 40, it hits a little differently than it does most of these other challengers. It’s kind of like a home for me. The Challenge has always been there for me to get me back on my feet again. I’m happy to be home.”
Their actual home this season is an old castle in Vietnam that looks quite beautiful on television but was slightly short on modern amenities. “This one was by far the worst treatment we’ve ever received as a cast,” Wiseley said on Instagram. “The entire time you’re in there, you are losing shape. We are treated like shit, we sleep like shit, we are fed like shit, our schedules are dog shit.”
To hear all about The Challenge 40: Battle of the Eras, we hopped on a Zoom with longtime Challenge showrunner Justin Booth. He gave his rundown of the season, explained how it all works from a production standpoint, reacted to Wiseleys’ allegations, and looked ahead to the future.
What were your initial thoughts about how to approach the 40th season of the show?
The most obvious was assembling 40 cast members, which doesn’t sound like much in itself, but it is. It’s a massive adaptation to the way that we do things since we have so many more bodies, which really impacts the games and the logistics of it all. It’s a big deal. That’s probably the most obvious thing, and it was great to see it come to fruition. It was no easy feat.
The previous season was built entirely around younger competitors who had never won. It seems like that was put together to sort of set the table for doing the opposite in this season.
Yeah. Paramount and BMP [Bunim/Murray Productions] are always trying to foster the next generation, if you will. There are a couple of different ways that we do that. And yes, it has all worked in our favor.
Tell me about the thought process that led to dividing the teams into four eras?
It was a very obvious choice. The concern was whether or not we would be able to field teams, especially from our era one and era two. There are obviously availability issues with all those guys. And when you get to era one, you’re my age. We all started this stuff a million years ago together. And so to be able to field these teams and actually realize this concept was exciting for us.
Do you think this season could have happened without All Stars? There were a lot of older players many fans had half-forgotten about prior to All Stars.
We have an embarrassment of riches, which we’ve enjoyed. And seeing the audience’s reaction to All Stars and how much they really enjoyed seeing those guys, certainly, was just icing on the cake for us.
What criteria were you using when casting? The highest win records? Athleticism? People with potential for great storylines?
We really went with our most popular kids. And I call them kids, even though obviously some of them are the same age that I am. We wanted 40 to be special, and to be special, we had to get the largest names that we possibly could that are affiliated with our show. Obviously, we swung and missed with a few people, and that was unfortunate, but we got a great, great cast. These are some of our most famous and most popular kids.
The names I often hear from fans they are dying to see again are Coral, Evelyn, Landon, and Wes. I’m sure you tried.
Yeah. And there are scheduling conflicts all the time. Obviously, these people are adults now. They have their own lives. They have their own jobs. The 8-week commitment to go on these shows is a real commitment. And so, unfortunately, some people just can’t make it work.
What do you say to someone on the fence if you’re trying to convince them to do it?
I try to employ my old age and my relationships with them when they got started. You go the sentimental route. And after that, there’s not much more that you can really do. You can only do so much if they have children or if they have jobs that won’t allow them to leave. So I beg and plead, and then I accept.
Wes says he’s retired, but we’ve heard that from people before. Do you think anybody is truly retired?
I can’t speak for Wes. But I’ve known Wes for years and years and years. Wes has a brand new baby, which is awesome, so I think that probably was more of the reason why he was unable to do this. I think that maybe we could talk him into it here in a few seasons, if we’re lucky enough to be around.
I imagine that Bananas and C.T. were both very high on your list. They’ve become the face of the show in many ways.
Yeah. Those guys are great. And then also Rachel Robinson. We wanted big names with both the guys and the girls.
People were surprised that Emanuel wasn’t there since he won last season.
We talked to him, but it just didn’t work out.
The biggest surprise is Aviv since she hasn’t been on since her lone season about 18 years ago.
We obviously went after champions all the way through our entire archive. And she was available, and she was able to do it. We were excited. A lot of times before, her name had been passed around, and for whatever reason, we had not asked her to come back on. So we were excited to get her back and she was everything that we wanted and more.
It’s been great having Cara back after all these years.
Yeah. And she’s back with vigor. She’s super excited to make the biggest effort that she can, which is a significant effort, and really go after winning these games. I think maybe she got a little tired towards the end, and stepping away from it for a little while reinvigorated her.
Laurel seems to have found yet another gear. She destroyed everyone on All Stars 4, men and women.
Yeah. She’s just a freak. And she’s brilliant. She’s very, very, very bright. I think she’s a veterinarian now. And she has this athletic prowess that nobody really can touch.
Most reality shows bring in different people each time. The secret sauce of The Challenge is bringing back the same people over rand over.
Hey, I’m 52, and this is my entire career. So yeah, it is a very unique unicorn in entertainment.
It’s in Vietnam this season. What factors go into picking the home country?
There’s a lot of boring stuff that we look at in regards to how secure places are, how affordable places are, all of those kinds of things. And then we want to go places that other people may never be able to go so that we can bring production value to our show. We want to add value to people’s overall experience.
The challengers never know where they are going until they arrive at the airport. Why is that?
It’s not as well kept a secret as it used to be. But the idea was the less they knew, the less they can prepare, the more they’re going to have to improvise, adapt, and overcome once they’re there. That’s true even for locations. As long as we keep them guessing, we keep them uncomfortable, and that’s what we want to do. We want to keep them wondering what’s next.
The logistics of flying 40 people out of the country must be tricky. Last minute issues must come up all the time.
We have to keep backups as a result of that. And we have had people fall out literally on the day that they’re supposed to get on the airplane or the day that they arrive, for a myriad of reasons.
We see Jordan arrive at the very end of the launch special. What was up with that?
He’s a professional race car driver now, and he had a race that weekend. And he said he really wanted to be a part of this, we really wanted him to be there, and so we made it work so that he could both complete that race, and then also come out.
How does the alternate system work? Are people in hotel rooms or do you fly them in last minute?
It depends. We’ve done it both ways. We’ve had alternates that stay at home, and then we’ve also had alternates that we fly out. It honestly depends on the place, convenience, and everything else. But we usually keep them on for a week or two. And if they aren’t with us, they are on alert.
You very quickly go from 40 cast members to 32. It must be a bummer for you to see people get all excited to be back on the show and then go home immediately.
It’s a bummer, but it’s also the exciting part that makes The Challenge what it is. This is a game where we try to constantly innovate rules and surprise people, and this is obviously painful, yes. Entertaining? Also yes. And I think that that’s what we really want to see out of it.
Is your harder than it used to be because of social media and all the Challenge podcasts? Every little thing is dissected in ways they weren’t before.
I don’t think that it makes the process harder. It certainly brings more people into the fold. So the decision-making process obviously incorporates a lot more than maybe it did in the past, but it doesn’t change the way that we do things But it’s interesting. It’s almost like having the glass window at the restaurant where you see all the cooks in the kitchen. It’s something that we just have to adapt to because that’s the way the world is now.
Tell me about coming up with eliminations for this season. Did you want to showcase some of the classic ones?
Yes. I don’t know what I can and can’t say with regards to this, but what we’ve done is we’ve showcased our most famous ones, while doing a very, very good job of coming up with all brand new games for the rest of the season.
I would guess you don’t want to come up with eliminations where someone’s sheer physical size gives them an overwhelming advantage.
Yeah. Hall Brawl would be a perfect example of that. Typically, Hall Brawl, the first iteration of that, it ended up being that. It ended up being Big Zach [Nichols] against CJ [Koegel], right? So that’s unintentional, but that’s just, unfortunately, the way that the game developed. But what we’ve tried to do is mitigate that while still being able to have these big headbangers. We’ve widened the gates and done things like that to tweak the game to where it’s not just about size. It’s also about speed. It’s also about cunning.
What’s your average day like on a challenge day?
It’s a very, very long day. The whole production process is a hard, hard life. But it’s an exciting life at the same time. We were up very early in Vietnam because of the heat. We didn’t want the kids to fry in the Vietnam heat of the mid-day. We typically wanted to start our games at 9:00 am, which meant people like us were starting at 5:00 am.
It takes four hours just to get the machine to get to the location before the kids arrive to begin their process. That’s a long process because once they arrive, obviously, we have to do all of our intros. Then we have to OTF [on the fly interview] every single one of them, and that’s 40 people. Then we have TJ actually explain the game, which we then have to execute.
The movement of 250 people to make that happen is very complicated. It’s very frustrating. And then you obviously have to deal with the elements. And so it’s a lot of exertion. But it’s also very enjoyable. I’m not complaining about the job. I have the greatest job in the world.
What’s your day like if you’re filming an elimination?
We get up early since you’re also prototyping our next challenge that day. That’s because as the weeks go by, we shoot two to three episodes per week. So, we have to prototype the next challenge that follows the elimination. We’ll test the elimination that morning in case we need to change anything to make sure the game functions the right way. Then, we will immediately go test and prototype the challenge for the next day. Then we come back and start the entire production process for that elimination that night. They’re long days. They’re 16-hour days at their best.
What’s the most difficult part of the job?
Dealing with the cards that you are dealt in whatever country you are in. Every location has its own issues. We had a lot of issues that came up very late. There have been times when we’ve had to change locations within 24 hours. That’s after we spent three or four days setting something up. Someone goes, “You can no longer shoot here.” That is probably my least favorite part because it’s just very, very difficult.
Back in the day, you’d let cast members head into the cities and hang out at bars with regular people. Nothing like that happens anymore.
No. We don’t let them. And that’s for their own protection too. Obviously the show’s been going on for a long time, but yes, we want to keep them sequestered. It’s hard. Just to be a player on this show is not easy. I don’t know that people really appreciate what these kids surrender to be able to do this. It is a hard 40-day beat down for the guy that make it all the way to the end.
Jordan went onto Instagram recently and complained about the treatment. He said, “We are treated like shit, we sleep like shit, we are fed like shit, our schedules are dog shit.”
I disagree, but like I say, it is hard to adjust to whatever the conditions may be. They certainly weren’t draconian, as he might have suggested. But if you go from life with your phone in your hand and being able to do and have access to everything that you want to a life behind closed doors where you are completely cut off…And I mean completely cut off. And you have to be places at certain times. Your entire schedule is now structured, and it’s against your will at some point…I guess not against your will. That’s not fair to say, but it’s not what you would do if you were on your own.
As Wes said recently in response to Jordan, the name of the show is “The Challenge” for a reason.
Like I said, I disagree with Jordan, but everybody’s more than free to speak their mind, and that’s quite fine.
It’s a pretty old castle they’re in. Where were the bathrooms?
The bathrooms were modular. They were put in after the fact, but everyone had their own, private bathrooms. They weren’t outside. But were they modular to the building, yes.
That seems more comfortable than the bunker on Total Madness.
I thought so. And so I was actually surprised to hear that he was so unhappy with this situation. Because I was like, “Man, the bunker was a lot worse.” They were underground. But again, that’s his opinion and that’s quite fine.
The Island seemed like a pretty miserable experience too.
We prepped all of those guys to do the island prior to shooting. There was a lot of, “This is like nothing that’s ever been done before, you have to understand that this is going to be more National Outdoor Leadership School, than it’s going to be like what you’ve enjoyed with the big mansions and things we’ve done before.”
You’ve been on the show a long time. What are the biggest changes you’ve seen?
It’s really about how people play the game. It used to basically be a spring break episode. We started out with campy games and everyone just partying. And it now has evolved into a thoughtful game, and very competitive, and I like that. And we still get to see all of the day-to-day drama that happens in everybody’s lives, just in a different way.
How do you stop spoilers from getting out? That must drive you insane.
We haven’t figured that out. We’ve taken great pains to try to keep the people that know about these things to the very smallest of groups of people, and have still been unsuccessful. I don’t know how to stop that. I don’t know what punitive measure could be placed that would be possible. I really don’t know.
It’s very frustrating, especially the kids that make it all the way to the end. Like I said, they’ve lived this life that wasn’t their own for 40 days. And also all of us that do these very, very difficult weeks, and week after week after week, with six-day work weeks and all of that, so it’s a bummer. But I hope that most people don’t look at that stuff. That’s my hope.
Do you have any theory as to how they get out?
I have theories, but I’m not going to sit here and tell you what those are because it’s not fair, because it’s just speculation on my part.
I never mind seeing the initial cast list when to leaks out on ship-out day. But I do whatever possible to avoid any game spoilers. It ruins the fun of the whole thing.
I hope that most people think of it that way. They’re like, “I know that it’s there, but I’m not going to look at it.” I just hope that that’s the case. I’m taping the Olympic games right now, and I don’t want anybody to tell me what happened before I get the chance to watch the game.
Do you think shows like Traitors and House of Villains are good for The Challenge since they bring new people to the show?
Yeah, I do. And our kids are doing very, very well on these other competition shows. I think that speaks to our game. And so I’m proud of them when they do well.
What Trishelle and CT did on Traitors was amazing. They were against these heavyweights from so many shows, and they ran circles around them.
I know. I thought it was awesome. And those two are great at the game. It makes you puff your chest out a little and go, “See? We are doing things that other people don’t.”
CT has really grown over the years. He’s so radically different than the CT we met in his early seasons.
Yeah. I think being a dad does that. Dad CT is a very, very different character than single CT from back in his late 20s.
Are you already thinking about Challenge 41?
We are already in the very, very beginning steps of looking around to talk about 41, which is awesome.
You’re in a good place now where there are rarely long periods of time without a new season running or one of the spinoffs.
It is, but to me sometimes I think of that as a double-edged sword because you certainly don’t want to dilute what is so successful and what we really want to succeed and continue. But I think the ingredients that we have put together for what we’re doing now with All-Stars and the Flagship, the MTV version of the show, I think that they can live alone very easily and not dilute the overall Challenge brand, which would be my only hesitation.
Are you thinking in the way way back of your head about what Challenge 50 might be like?
Well, if I’m lucky enough to be on that, that would be awesome. By then, my children will be able to start becoming challengers. Which is kind of crazy, but that would be amazing. Listen, for all of us who are involved in this, and there are hundreds of people who are involved in this process and have been a part of The Challenge for decades, it is very rewarding to see the show succeed, and it couldn’t be done without all of those guys. So again, it would be awesome if we can achieve that.
It won’t be too long before we have challengers in their sixties. I’d love to see a senior’s tournament one day like in golf.
Listen, Mark Long would do that in a heartbeat. And he and I are the same age, so I will happily ask Mark to help me put that together. That would be amazing, the senior PGA version of The Challenge.
